Posts by Doug Mason

4

It is inadequate to focus on individual words

by Doug Mason in

it seems to me, and i am open to be criticised, that the focus on individual words - as in considering revisions to this "new" nwt - is myopic and it misses the real issues.. i have no problems with improving readabilty; i have no problems with committees representating a range of expert scholars reviewing textual evidence and producing better and more readable texts of the bible.

indeed, i wish these experts would take the results of their studies to the christain populace and produce a totally new bible - rejecting books that are now in it (such as acts), altering the sequence of books (paul first), even inserting some (the book of enoch comes to mind, for example).

in other words, to address the canon.. there is another wide and more significant issue that has to be addressed - context.

Doug Mason

It seems to me, and I am open to be criticised, that the focus on individual words - as in considering revisions to this "new" NWT - is myopic and it misses the real issues.

I have no problems with improving readabilty; I have no problems with committees representating a range of expert scholars reviewing textual evidence and producing better and more readable texts of the Bible. Indeed, I wish these experts would take the results of their studies to the Christain populace and produce a totally new Bible - rejecting books that are now in it (such as Acts), altering the sequence of books (Paul first), even inserting some (the Book of Enoch comes to mind, for example). In other words, to address the canon.

There is another wide and more significant issue that has to be addressed - context. Not only the textual context of a word or passage, but the human context - the contemporary history at the moment a writing was composed and when it was edited and re-edited, changed and corrupted. I know this is Higher Criticism, which the WTS says it rejects - except for the following example on the subject of exegesis:

"However, if a person ignored the context and directly applied the text to worldly conflicts, limiting it to that, he would lose the whole point of the apostle Paul's argument. He would then not really be letting the Bible speak. Besides the written context, a person should keep in mind the time period involved. This can prevent one from drawing wrong conclusions" (WT, Oct 1,1976, page 586).

As I am wont to occasionally note: "a text without a context is a pretext".

Douhg

37

My interest in this revised NWT

by Doug Mason in

the biases of the earlier iteration of the nwt have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and i assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases.

one can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.. my interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the wts's support material and on the impact its release will have on witnesses.

some preliminary thoughts are:.

Doug Mason

Thanks for your help. From what I have seen so far, I am underwhelmed. These changes could have been addressed by a simple leaflet.

Do these changes achieve anything other than clarify one person's beefs with the way Franz expressed himself at certain points, especially in view of the changes they have made since he went?

Am I being cynical, but can anyone provide a realistic estimate of the gross revenue?

Would they have weighed up the impact on some JWs, or would they have been considered collateral damage for the good of the WTS's coffers?

It's almost Monday in USA, so I look forward to being able to see what's up.

JWs would be staggered if they had the choice of translations that are available to those outside the WTS's grasp.

Doug

2

Matthew 24:46

by SloppyJoe in

if this is already being discussed i did not see it and just direct me to the proper thread.

in the revised edition they have changed arriving to coming since they changed the doctrine.

anyone notice this?.

Doug Mason

Russell taught that the Parousia (in 1874) preceded the End in 1914 (with the breakout of unprecedented peace under the Zionists).

About 1930, Rutherford shifted the Parousia to 1914 but still foresaw a forthcoming divine intervention.

Since Rutherford's time, the WTS has continued a two-stage "parousia followed by a future coming Armagedon".

Russell picked up the two-stage idea from the Rapturists (Darby, Schofield, etc) which was being popularised at the time. They focused on the "70 weeks" at Daniel 9. Russell was also convinced by Barbour that the Parousia had already occurred in 1874.

I recall seeing this differentiation between parousia/presence and erchatai/coming in the 1960s. From my ancient memory, I have the idea it might have been in the "Babylon" book.

Doug

22

The New New World Translation: What a Blessing!

by breakfast of champions in

this new new world translation just puts god's holy word in a whole new new light for me!

just check out this comparison, and add some of your own if you wish!.

numbers 31: 17, 18 old new world translation.

Doug Mason

Data-Dog,

Indications are that the DSS - which are LXX (Greek OT) - did not initially have the tetragram, but that they were added much later into the spaces that had been left by earlier writers. It is significant in that they did not use the Hebrew characters which were current at the time, but they went back into the nation's early history, using palaeo-Hebrew characters. This indicates they were not read out with the Greek text.

The WTS does not follow that practice, but instead inserts a non-word from recent tradition of the Middle Ages. The Hebrew text of the Masoretes gave rise to the word when they inserted vowel points into the tetragram, in which they interleaved characters from Adonai into the tetragram.

The WTS does not follow the DSS, in that its NWT does not insert Hebrew characters into the text. Not that they inserted it consistently; rather, Franz was more intent on supporting a predetermined outcome.

Doug

14

Food for thought

by braincleaned in

why is it said that we "inherited" sin?

we all know the old 'dented cake mold' illustration... but it doesn't follow logic.. .

it was obviously not obligatory that we "inherited" sin.

Doug Mason

I think you might need to research Church Father Augustine for the concept of "original sin".

Doug

37

My interest in this revised NWT

by Doug Mason in

the biases of the earlier iteration of the nwt have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and i assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases.

one can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.. my interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the wts's support material and on the impact its release will have on witnesses.

some preliminary thoughts are:.

Doug Mason

Thank you for your insights. Please keep them coming.

If these are typical of this "revised NWT", it is a non-event. This suggests to me that this could be a cynical revenue-raising exercise.

Your responses suggest to me that the changes could be cosmetic and are probably changes to the NWT rather than the result of any original research. I keenly wait to be able to access it.

I suggest the more interesting aspects will relate to their support material and to the impact this will have on some JWs.

Doug

37

My interest in this revised NWT

by Doug Mason in

the biases of the earlier iteration of the nwt have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and i assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases.

one can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.. my interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the wts's support material and on the impact its release will have on witnesses.

some preliminary thoughts are:.

Doug Mason

Julia,

If your JW friend is upset about changes, maybe he might find these Studies of mine of use:

http://www.jwstudies.com/How_do_we_know_that_our_copies_of_the_Scriptures_are_authentic.pdf

http://www.jwstudies.com/We_can_be_sure.pdf

Doug

37

My interest in this revised NWT

by Doug Mason in

the biases of the earlier iteration of the nwt have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and i assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases.

one can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.. my interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the wts's support material and on the impact its release will have on witnesses.

some preliminary thoughts are:.

Doug Mason

OTWO,

Apologies for the way my mind works. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with it.

You made me smile, anyway.

Doug

37

My interest in this revised NWT

by Doug Mason in

the biases of the earlier iteration of the nwt have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and i assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases.

one can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.. my interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the wts's support material and on the impact its release will have on witnesses.

some preliminary thoughts are:.

Doug Mason

Julia,

Thank you.

Doug

37

My interest in this revised NWT

by Doug Mason in

the biases of the earlier iteration of the nwt have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and i assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases.

one can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.. my interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the wts's support material and on the impact its release will have on witnesses.

some preliminary thoughts are:.

Doug Mason

The biases of the earlier iteration of the NWT have been known and discussed from the appearance of the first appearance in 1950, and I assume the revised edition will be affected by the same prejudicial biases. One can cynically subscribe to the view that this is a financial bonanza and possibly a distraction from the imminent centenary of that distant significant date.

My interest will be to see how the impact of this revision evolves, particularly in the area of the WTS's support material and on the impact its release will have on Witnesses. Some preliminary thoughts are:

1. Does the NT still accept the 27 NT books provided to it by the 4th century Trinitarian Church, including Athanasius and the Roman Emperors?

2. Does the OT retain an allegiance to the Hebrew text or to the Septuagint (for example with Jeremiah, especially in regards to the "70 years")?

3. Will it say the changes are due to a better understanding, to Lower Criticism, additional information since the last release of the NWT, to recognition that the MSS evidence shows that the text is unreliable and has to be reconstructed by Lower Critics?

4. Which text(s) does the revised NWT rely on (eg., Westcott-Hort; Textus Receptus; MT; variety of LXX), or had it constructed its own source from a selection from many sources (eclectic)?

5. How will the WTS manage the transition from the previous version to this one?

6. Will any JW prefer to refer to the earlier version? If so, what will the WTS's attitude be to those who do not change over?

7. Will the over familiarity with the earlier text unnerve any? (Over time, they managed to wean a previous generation on to their translation).

Mostly, I guess I am interested in the last question; so I would like to hear any anecdotal evidence (not assumptions or hearsay).

Can anyone tell me how I may obtain a soft copy of the revised NWT as well as any supporting material produced by the WTS?

Doug